With Karine Lacombe and Louise Bourgoin, at the heart of the hospital in times of crisis

Dr. Karine Lacombe has found the most direct tone to trace the upset daily life of the hospital with a moving and formidably effective comic book (1). On the set of Hippocrates, the Covid also came to turn everything upside down.

Miss Figaro. - Professor Karine Lacombe, you are head of the infectious diseases department at the Saint-Antoine hospital in Paris. Since the beginning of the pandemic, a year ago, you have found yourself almost overnight in the spotlight, on television sets. Tell us…Karine Lacombe. - It got off to a flying start! Nine months before the start of the pandemic, Professor Pierre-Marie Girard asked me to take the reins of the infectious diseases department at Saint-Antoine hospital. It is in this capacity that one day someone hands me the phone and says to me: “This is the Prime Minister’s Office.” And there, instead of rejoicing, I worry: "What stupidity did I do?" When I heard that he offered me to join him at the Élysée for the first press conference on this Covid-19 crisis, my second reaction was: “I am not legitimate!” In both cases, I reacted like many women, with this famous complex of imposture. I was then regularly invited on the radio, on television, I made the front page of Libéet du Monde, and I even suffered lynching on social networks… All that, I tell about in my book, La Doctor. An infectious disease specialist in the time of Corona. Louise Bourgoin. - This graphic novel, I devoured it in a few hours. I felt like I was continuing the adventure of Hippocrates!

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In video, "Hippocrates", season 2, the trailer

Louise Bourgoin, for the second season, you play the character of Chloé, a young intern in fourth year, resuscitator. Did you hesitate before accepting the role? LB - Not for a second. It is a very beautiful portrait of a woman, a sort of "doctor monk". She is a pugnacious girl, totally dedicated to her job to the point where she puts herself in danger. She's a thousand miles from the comedy characters I've played so far, and she could just as well have been a man! She's complex, she carries a family and medical secret… Thomas (Lilti, the director, editor's note) asked me to further accentuate my height, with a bun, a haughty bearing, to underline her natural authority. KL - I was blown away by the character of Chloé. She seems to me so close to certain female doctors: her professionalism, this way of armoring herself to face the worst. I found totally similar situations there, young interns lacking supervision, understaffing, FFIs, these foreign doctors acting as interns, who work a lot and are paid very little...

At the start of season 2, we see the hospital literally underwater… And the young interns lost, without supervision, who watch tutorials on their iPad before treating the sick. Is the situation really so serious? KL - We are indeed in this situation, on the verge of breaking up, we are constantly trying to free up beds. In our Covid unit, I found myself in rooms where the windows wouldn't even open! We could not ventilate, in the midst of a pandemic, when the authorities advised to do so.

There's a section in my new night #photography tutorial on how to shoot & build long exposure photographs like this… https://t.co/wJzcNrH0wo

— Andrew Brooks Thu Sep 03 09:49:48 +0000 2020

Louise Bourgoin, was this trip to the hospital a revelation for you? LB - My sister is a pediatrician at the hospital, I knew a little about the difficulties of the sector. But I learned a lot from the series. I am unbeatable on the name of the drugs - which I had to pronounce as if they were familiar to me, and I learned to carry out certain therapeutic gestures. I was happy, after the shots, when the director told me that not only had I assured my game, but that I had made the right gestures. More generally, I know today that doctors are not superheroes, but fallible humans, who are exhausted, doubtful, forget the sick behind a door! That's what I liked about Hippocrate, unlike Urgences, which is less realistic.

Hippocrates features another beautiful portrait of a woman, Professor Wagner, head of the intensive care unit, played by Anne Consigny. Your alter ego, Karine Lacombe? KL - There are still too few of us: there are currently 70% of women enrolled in the second year of medicine, and only 18% at the top of the pyramid, PU-PH (university professor, practitioner hospital). It's a paradox: the medical community is very feminized and very macho. The health crisis has not helped us: 70% of articles on the Covid were signed first by men, women worked in the shadows. During my career, I had to overcome a number of obstacles to m 'impose. Even today, when I go to see my patients, I regularly hear "Are you the nurse?" We women should impose ourselves with our bodies, occupy space! Some sometimes refuse promotions, for fear of losing their privacy. And, I admit, it's a risk. For my part, I sacrificed the stability of my life as a couple. I had three children from three different fathers. And I'm separated from the father of my youngest daughter. It's hard to find a life companion when you have character.

LB - It took me a long time to find the right father. I was 32 when I met my partner, and I had two pregnancies. When I started filming season 1 of Hippocrates, the eldest was 12 months old - let me tell you, I didn't do much makeup to look tired. Then, for season 2, I had just given birth to the second… If I was able to do all that, it's thanks to the father of my children, a UFO, a precursor in terms of equal roles. I live in a very family-friendly neighborhood, where the mothers bake beautiful cakes and are there after school. For Hippocrates, I left at 5:30 in the morning, I returned at 10 p.m. I did not see my children. Right now I'm at home enjoying it and it's great. But in rush moments, when I'm filming on the other side of the world, or when I'm doing continuous days, you have to fight against guilt, always... KL - Yes, guilt is our worst enemy. During the crisis, I ended up asking my own mother to come and help me look after my youngest daughter. At home, as soon as my white coat was removed, I had to answer the questions: "Can I catch it too?" "Can I pass it on even if I'm not sick?" I was in a state of hypervigilance. I slept three hours a night. And at home, it was I who bore the mental load... LB - During confinement, it was back to the 1950s. I didn't leave the house, I taught my eldest while ironing like crazy , because I had heard that it was good for killing the virus. My companion, like the hunter-gatherer, went shopping… We quickly found the good old archetypes in times of crisis.

In the series, Professor Wagner co-opts your character, Chloe, to help her find her footing. Does this sorority exist in the hospital, Karine Lacombe? KL - Absolutely! I'm a firm believer in female mentorship, although in my case it was a man who got me started. I accompany ten interns a year, and I am particularly attentive to bright young students. They are still mistreated too often, and these little humiliations leave long-term traces, poisoning self-confidence, which women sorely lack. Even me ! I was invited to talk about Covid and Africa a few days ago. I replied “Why me? I have nothing to say." (She laughs.) I spoke more than the others…

Louise Bourgoin, your character in the series is the referring doctor for “F to M” (women in transition to male sex). Does the transgender issue also interest you personally? LB - I am passionate about the subject. What makes us a woman? A man ? I am reading Le Mythe de la virility, by the philosopher Olivia Gazalé, which deconstructs the stereotypes of masculinity. When I was at the Beaux-Arts, I constantly drew bodies in fusion, intertwined, with undifferentiated sex. I also did it for the Pierre Frey house. As such, transgender people, who take a very interesting look at the specificities of masculinity and femininity, are fascinating to listen to. They help us flush out gender stereotypes, to free ourselves from them. KL - That's absolutely correct. In my department, in the HIV department, I see a number of transsexuals. One of them, a woman who made her transition, told me one thing: what shocked her the most, after the operation, was the way men looked at her female body, an objectifying, predatory, alienating gaze. The gaze of transgender patients is indeed very enlightening because they have lived on the border between two worlds. LB - In Hippocrates, they are called "mirror patients", those who reveal a part of themselves to doctors... KL - Yes, that's a nice expression, the "mirror patient". They help us to move forward, to think. I accompanied a 90-year-old patient who absolutely refused intubation and quietly wanted to leave. I talked a lot with her, about the end, about death. When I saw her the last few days, she reminded me of my grandmother on her deathbed. It was a moving moment. She left in peace, and we, thanks to her, learned not to work hard to keep her alive. This is another point on which we doctors, and in particular female doctors, who are so quick to empathize, must make progress.

(1) The Doctor. An infectious disease specialist in the time of Corona, by Karine Lacombe and Fiamma Luzzati, Stock Editions, 192 pages, 18.50 euros.

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